Suggestions and OOC

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Re: Suggestions and OOC

Post by Huojin » 18:13:49 Friday, 19 December, 2014

I'll wait for stats before giving a full appraisal, but just preliminarily, it's kinda haphazardly written? I don't know about anyone else, but for some reason I find it hard to read. This could totally be just me, but yeah. Some parts are confusing/less-than-coherently written.

EDIT: OK, so I changed my mind, here's some stuff.

You missed the economic stuff done in Madagascar.

The situation in Dahomey is poorly explained, but whatever.

Stuff in Angola also isn't what was discussed.

The single sentence on what's going on in Chad could use some elaboration.

Bolivia "refuses to move into their [Soviet/Cuban] sphere fully" but still changed colour on the map.

In Tam was still pro-US, so I disagree with Cambodian being Neutral (American).

"The USSR denounces the nomenklatura policies that have stemmed since the Khrushchev era, removes the gerontocrats, and institutes meritocracy." This is said in such a blasé fashion, as though it would have been that easy. Oh, all Brezhnev had to do was tell all the old guys in the Politburo to GTFO and say "we're a meritocracy now guys"? Brezhnev is a gerontocrat himself, as are the majority of the people with the power.

Carvalho, apparently leader of the Carnation Revolution in 1971 here, "was posted to Portuguese Guinea in 1970 as a captain, under General António de Spínola, in charge of civilian affairs and propaganda" and remained there until 1973 at least. So basically everything in Portugal and related to the colonies becoming independence is wrong.

And Thailand is in Asia, not Oceania. Plus other geographic and grammatical mistakes throughout the turn. Also I'll PM you some stuff.
Last edited by Huojin on 18:53:47 Friday, 19 December, 2014, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Suggestions and OOC

Post by RinKou » 18:45:54 Friday, 19 December, 2014

Huojin wrote:I'll wait for stats before giving a full appraisal, but just preliminarily, it's kinda haphazardly written? I don't know about anyone else, but for some reason I find it hard to read. This could totally be just me, but yeah. Some parts are confusing/less-than-coherently written.
There's a pretty massive number of typos and the formatting is weird.

Also, uh, why are non-Sinic Asians counted as "Oceania"? I can vaguely see calling the Philippines Oceania, but Malaysia and Thailand are pretty firmly part of the Asian landmass.

Also, maybe we should scale back on the importance of dice rolls here. The Red Army Faction raiding an American depot is kinda dumb.
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Re: Suggestions and OOC

Post by Gesar » 18:56:29 Friday, 19 December, 2014

RinKou wrote:The Red Army Faction raiding an American depot is kinda dumb.
Except it happened in real life, so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Army_F ... to_the_RAF

That aside, I'm pretty curious as to who would have the absolute audacity to turn back Soviet shipments to North Vietnam after years of aid already happening...grounds for war and all that.

Edit: In response to Huojin's stuff,

Agreed on certain things not being done properly and other things being outright ignored.

While I do agree that what Litos wrote was an oversimplification of the series of complicated political maneuverings I put in, including who would support what faction and why, and what was actually being denounced, and what the effect would be, I can't agree that the way you put it was how it went down (or that the gerontocracy was entirely dismantled, as seems to be your impression). If it helps you sleep at night, I'll detail every exact action that went into that, but until then, you know nothing, Nixon Snow.

And there's nothing to say Carvalho, with the right prompting, couldn't return for the coup. It's no more unrealistic than, say, an FNLA-MPLA coalition (sure that wasn't a typo?) or, y'know, a half dozen KGB agents somehow getting gunned down in the West Bank.
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Re: Suggestions and OOC

Post by RinKou » 19:17:54 Friday, 19 December, 2014

Gesar wrote:
RinKou wrote:The Red Army Faction raiding an American depot is kinda dumb.
Except it happened in real life, so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Army_F ... to_the_RAF
I stand corrected :V
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Re: Suggestions and OOC

Post by Smyg » 19:20:49 Friday, 19 December, 2014

And there's nothing to say Carvalho, with the right prompting, couldn't return for the coup.
I'd like to remind everyone that Franco was in Morocco when the civil war broke out.

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Re: Suggestions and OOC

Post by Huojin » 19:32:40 Friday, 19 December, 2014

Gesar wrote:
RinKou wrote:The Red Army Faction raiding an American depot is kinda dumb.
Except it happened in real life, so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Army_F ... to_the_RAF

That aside, I'm pretty curious as to who would have the absolute audacity to turn back Soviet shipments to North Vietnam after years of aid already happening...grounds for war and all that.

Edit: In response to Huojin's stuff,

Agreed on certain things not being done properly and other things being outright ignored.

While I do agree that what Litos wrote was an oversimplification of the series of complicated political maneuverings I put in, including who would support what faction and why, and what was actually being denounced, and what the effect would be, I can't agree that the way you put it was how it went down (or that the gerontocracy was entirely dismantled, as seems to be your impression). If it helps you sleep at night, I'll detail every exact action that went into that, but until then, you know nothing, Nixon Snow.

And there's nothing to say Carvalho, with the right prompting, couldn't return for the coup. It's no more unrealistic than, say, an FNLA-MPLA coalition (sure that wasn't a typo?) or, y'know, a half dozen KGB agents somehow getting gunned down in the West Bank.
FNLA-MPLA should be a typo.

I'm also not convinced the MFA was even formed by 1971. And if we wanna say Carvalho returned and promptly gave all the colonies independence, I'd probably take issue with that too. The time between the Carnation Revolution and the Alvor Agreement (for Angola), for example, was April 1974 to January 1975, with independence in November 1975. I contend that they'd've instantly offloaded the colonies. I also can't find anything that suggests they'd have withdrawn from NATO Military Command.

Also, why didn't Caetano surrender to Spinola, as he insisted on doing historically (and apparently the officers of the coup insisted too)?
Smyg wrote:I'd like to remind everyone that Franco was in Morocco when the civil war broke out.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Franco wasn't in charge when the civil war broke out - he rose to power after the death of the original leader of the uprisings/coup.


And my issue with Soviet shenanigans is just that if we're left totally uninformed as to what went on, even on an OOC level, then we have no way to assess or dispute its accuracy. I'm merely saying that from what was written in the turn, it's insufficient. Just my view.

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Re: Suggestions and OOC

Post by Smyg » 19:43:52 Friday, 19 December, 2014

Franco was very central to the coup.

Stop being an asshole, Huojin.

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Re: Suggestions and OOC

Post by Serenissima » 21:21:29 Friday, 19 December, 2014

Several French-related things are pretty screwy and nonsensical, particularly Madagascar and Dahomey. I'm not sure if it's the RNG or just forgotten entirely in some other cases.
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Re: Suggestions and OOC

Post by OYID » 21:28:31 Friday, 19 December, 2014

I for one want to thank Litos for delivering on an RNG-heavy, very game-y turn.

There's still some things I wanna talk over though. >_>
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Re: Suggestions and OOC

Post by Litos » 21:36:15 Friday, 19 December, 2014

A lot of the actions failed because other side did covert things against them, and the rosy economy things failed because civil war broke out

The Angolan stuff didnt work out how you wanted because estado novo got overthrown whiel they were integral to the transfer of power. A bit of a problem there hmm

The Soviets spent hundreds of credits infiltrating and couping Portugal multiple times and there was no response. Post-Salazar estado novo lost most of its raison d'etre so its a stretch even to say there would be a right wing counter coup in the first place instead of the moderate election irl. Caetano was doing a decent economic job by then so I made one happen but they launched a second coup

FNLA is almost entirely dependent on American aid and the threats worked

The Soviet economic plans worked because hundreds of credits were spent on them. The USSR had reduced purging by then to a science as well, and it's not like a leader never purged his own class before

Soviet agents got gunned down for a reason too covert to post

I made cambodia change policy because just changing the leader without changing the policy wouldnt do anything

The two vietnamese things didnt work because other countries sabotaged them
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Re: Suggestions and OOC

Post by Serenissima » 21:55:15 Friday, 19 December, 2014

Bit ASB to turn a peaceful student protest into a full-blown civil war overnight just by giving them guns, if you ask me...
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Re: Suggestions and OOC

Post by Litos » 21:59:18 Friday, 19 December, 2014

What about a lot of guns from multiple sources, plus agents to train the men and infiltrators to form cells?
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Re: Suggestions and OOC

Post by Smyg » 21:59:30 Friday, 19 December, 2014

What student protests are we talking about?

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Re: Suggestions and OOC

Post by Serenissima » 22:07:44 Friday, 19 December, 2014

Litos wrote:What about a lot of guns from multiple sources, plus agents to train the men and infiltrators to form cells?
And yet the events that conspired to later cause civil unrest and widen the protest movement didn't even occur. Terrorist attacks are one thing, sure, but describe it as such, not a civil war between factions that don't even yet really have any reason to exist.
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Re: Suggestions and OOC

Post by Litos » 22:15:34 Friday, 19 December, 2014

Serenissima wrote:
Litos wrote:What about a lot of guns from multiple sources, plus agents to train the men and infiltrators to form cells?
And yet the events that conspired to later cause civil unrest and widen the protest movement didn't even occur. Terrorist attacks are one thing, sure, but describe it as such, not a civil war between factions that don't even yet really have any reason to exist.
They actually did. It's not really a civil war either but a guerilla army.
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