Inaccuracies

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scorpion
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Re: Inaccuracies

Post by scorpion » 15:52:23 Sunday, 27 March, 2016

Finding it really hard to believe that 10 well trained, technologically & tactically advanced, well armed units of the best land army in Europe is reduced to 1 unit in Kiautschou Bay. All the while supported by 3 Naval that have sight of the shangdong peninsula on 3 sides for support. Even outnumbered 3 to 1, the amount of fire I could bring on Chinese units on the peninsula would be huge considering i didn't even try to move in land.

In my opinion, The battle with the 30 Chinese units outrageously flawed, especially considering That they are far behind technologically, and i'd literally be going against human wave attacks that can be gunned down by machine guns,artillery and naval bombardment.


This is especially true after seeing the friggen Italian army(a joke compared to Germany's Army in this period) take an area 2x larger Spain.
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Re: Inaccuracies

Post by Serenissima » 17:10:03 Sunday, 27 March, 2016

Given that the 20,000 at most troops hastily assembled by the Eight Nation Alliance - and never all at once - defeated the 400,000 Imperial and Boxer troops (also never all in one place) during the rebellion in 1900, it doesn't seem like a realistic outcome to me either. That one also had a simultaneous Russian invasion.
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Re: Inaccuracies

Post by Master of Oblivion » 22:30:20 Sunday, 27 March, 2016

I agree the casualties were too high. However, I still think the Germans should have lost. They were outnumbered 3-1 and they were operating in the Shandong peninsula, which could be considered part of home turf the Republican rebellion. Additionally they would have been going up against New Army elements, which were the best trained of the Chinese forces, instead of the worse elements of the imperial army.

If people find it satisfactory I will make it that 6-7 German units are currently pinned down by about 23-35 Chinese units.
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Re: Inaccuracies

Post by scorpion » 01:49:54 Monday, 28 March, 2016

While I accept being knocked down to 6-7 units. With historical instances and knowledge of the era, I do not see how the limited objective of a defensive line on the peninsula fails.

I am un-impeded in the sea, making necessary supplies available to my troops. I have fire support from my 3 naval units. A veteran Officer corps trained in modern tactics, and weapons. Soldiers who have trained & been in the army for more than a just few years, with a long history of Prussian indoctrination. I understand the emergence of a 'new army' but even so, so easy a break in such a limited objective would be highly unlikely, even with the odds in Chinese favor. This engagement would not result in trench warfare or a siege, it'd be route, or at best a stalemate for the Chinese in the peninsula.


I ask for the sake of the game,and all players, that more scrutiny is used when deciding the outcomes of engagements because this is the second far fetched one to occur after the mass Italian landing, and land grab in Spain.

Anyways carry on from here I suppose. I will be refereing back to this battle when it comes to other powers engaging under teched nations with superior numbers if the result stands however.
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Re: Inaccuracies

Post by Serenissima » 14:55:33 Monday, 28 March, 2016

Overall, I think we could also use some rewritten info and explanation about China; since at present, it refers to 'the Chinese' when talking about all factions. Still no clue about the state of the Legations, for example, or whether Westerners are being attacked or not, as only the French are mentioned.
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Re: Inaccuracies

Post by scorpion » 16:23:01 Monday, 28 March, 2016

I agree with Seren that the news reports could use a little more detail, especially when it comes to conflict zones of an alternate historical influence. The confusion is sure to continue if they remain vague. Even if it takes extra time, itll be less youd have to set straight for players.


Also just want to state, i won't be able to submit a turn until i know the final status of the situation in shandong, and weathe i have been allowed to retain 6-7 units there.
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Re: Inaccuracies

Post by Master of Oblivion » 01:06:12 Tuesday, 29 March, 2016

I fixed the peninsula campaign. I will put more details into fights.
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Re: Inaccuracies

Post by scorpion » 01:45:06 Tuesday, 29 March, 2016

I appreciate you taking the time to go back and explore the issue more Chairman MoO. Thank you for the revision.
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Re: Inaccuracies

Post by Master of Oblivion » 02:13:03 Tuesday, 29 March, 2016

In return I want someone to care about Crete.
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Re: Inaccuracies

Post by Coin » 14:36:52 Tuesday, 29 March, 2016

Master of Oblivion wrote:In return I want someone to care about Crete.
Memememe


Alsoooo:

This fellow is listed under the wrong name in the stats, as the Guangzhou Emperor instead of the Guangxu Emperor. I think. Too many similar names among the Chinese - I only noticed as I was writing up a news post. :P
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Re: Inaccuracies

Post by Flamelord » 01:22:00 Thursday, 07 April, 2016

Oh, right. Can I have my 2 units from the Secret Expedition back now that it isn't so secret anymore? :p

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Re: Inaccuracies

Post by Serenissima » 09:40:50 Thursday, 28 April, 2016

Just to clarify what was written, I hadn't suggested shipping random Egyptian and Sudanese guys up to China as you wrote, hence leaving them behind to carry on fighting and bringing some of the British. :P

I'm also curious as to why Australia is now listed as a separate country and in the Neutral sphere (perhaps it was changed last turn but I didn't notice) because the Statute of Westminster won't be passed until 1931, and even after that, the sphere would surely have been British until 1945. Historically speaking.

Even with the several separate Australian colonies federated together as they did (early in this game just to simplify things) they're still part of the Empire and answering to London for a long time yet. I don't mind if the major colonial nations are represented individually on the stats with the armies they all had themselves, but I'd think the sphere would be at least British as the map shows!
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Re: Inaccuracies

Post by Flamelord » 15:06:10 Thursday, 28 April, 2016

Bold tag for Morocco is broken. Same thing for Yunnan and Shanghai.

I still have those two units on the secret expedition to Fashoda that already ended, and I should have naval units off China.

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Re: Inaccuracies

Post by Huojin » 23:19:32 Saturday, 14 May, 2016

Not to rain on anyone's parade, but I was looking through the stats and found some inaccuracies with maths:
  • USA should have +236 income, not +237.
  • Britain should have +52 income, not +99. And their troop upkeep should be -51, not -49. Not sure why that wasn't increased.
  • France should have +40 income, not +50. And their troop upkeep should be -50, not -40. The free troops in West Africa seem the best explanation for that, except their freely deployed, not maintained.
  • Germany should have +122 income, not +135. Except they don't have their -30 rent they agreed to pay Sweden-Norway for base rental in the Treaty of Stockholm, which would take them to +92 income.
  • Austria-Hungary should have +68 income, not +58 income. Except they also don't have their -30 rent they agreed to pay Sweden-Norway, which would take them to +38 income.
  • Ottoman credit counts are screwy, not least because they don't have naval maintenance. Needs looking at.
  • Italy should have +87 income, not +89. And I'd move the -15 strikes thing to the Credit Income line for clarity.
  • Japan should have +55 income, not +75.
Checked the other player nations and they seem fine - except China, but it's a mess and I'm not touching it until the stats are tidied next turn when Gesar and Aegis' former part merge together.

On this note, the stats might've pitched the USA as too far ahead economically. Not sure. But worth considering. Obviously the current stats are a mediocre indicator, since the European powers are involved in a bunch of things and the USA isn't right now, but the stats still had them earning more than anyone else at game start - and not by a small margin. If anyone knows how accurate that is, please chime in. Just something that occurred to me while I was doing this maths.

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Re: Inaccuracies

Post by Serenissima » 03:20:51 Sunday, 15 May, 2016

Huojin wrote: [*]Britain should have +52 income, not +99. And their troop upkeep should be -51, not -49. Not sure why that wasn't increased.
Raised this one myself before on the stuff that doesn't get included, it seems to be missing some elements that I was told about (Irish and Imperial economic benefits) but weren't in the stats, while India was. They seem a bit screwy in a variety of areas, largely low incomes, or at least, the US income being 1950 level (relatively) rather than 1900 level, largely due to the US government not levying taxes on that level until WWI and WWII. Though I'm not sure it's intentional that nobody has much income in the first place. The US did have the single largest economy in 1900, though the total economy of the British Empire was still significantly ahead until after WWI, or arguably until WWII, with India alone accounting for more economic activity than France or Italy. Of course, these don't account well for everything, and pure PPP isn't the best measurement. Could argue this for hours, regardless.

There is this, at least for Europe.
And these for a select few larger economies.
This spreadsheet may be more useful for hard numbers for many nations.

Stats are overall a bit of a mess, as earlier pointed out - Australia being listed as a neutral-sphere(!) major nation while all the other Responsible Government nations aren't, and so on. It's not consistent: I'd be happy for the nations in the British Empire to get a seperate listing and economic statistics and military and so on, or for them all to just count towards an overall 'British Empire' total of troops and income (no Statute of Westminster yet, so that's reasonable), but it needs to be one or the other consistently. Right now, it's a bit like I've only got the 'Great Britain' part of the statistics included - other than credit bonuses - while still paying for everything outside Great Britain personally. :p
"Imagine lies, and then write them down in order. That is literally all authors do!"

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