Inaccuracies

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Coin
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Re: Inaccuracies

Post by Coin » 06:42:17 Saturday, 02 July, 2016

Huojin wrote:My master copy has the updated Port Arthur colour, but it just says "raids" into Qing territory, not occupation or control of any part of Inner Mongolia.
Check Chairman MoO's maps for turns gone by, they'd expanded a bit.

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Re: Inaccuracies

Post by Huojin » 11:04:59 Saturday, 02 July, 2016

Coin wrote:
Huojin wrote:My master copy has the updated Port Arthur colour, but it just says "raids" into Qing territory, not occupation or control of any part of Inner Mongolia.
Check Chairman MoO's maps for turns gone by, they'd expanded a bit.
Actually they hadn't, Chairman MoO just can't draw the shape of Mongolia. Confirmed as much by me when I had to redraw the whole of China ;P

Xinjiang was also the complete wrong shape and place, but given the exact phrasing Chairman MoO used and the good intention we can clearly see behind what he drew, I think the map is pretty accurate currently.

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Re: Inaccuracies

Post by Coin » 17:48:40 Saturday, 02 July, 2016

Nope, check the 1899E news and map compared to the last.

I feel this is why Chairman MoO should be answering me ;p

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Re: Inaccuracies

Post by Master of Oblivion » 19:58:29 Saturday, 02 July, 2016

The mongols have made some territorial advances. Russian-Bulgarian forces have advanced along the coast. Since Thrace was heavily protected they just grabbed territory further west.
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Re: Inaccuracies

Post by Huojin » 21:07:30 Saturday, 02 July, 2016

Master of Oblivion wrote:The mongols have made some territorial advances. Russian-Bulgarian forces have advanced along the coast. Since Thrace was heavily protected they just grabbed territory further west.
Okay, any areas in particular re: Mongolia?

And am I eliminating that pocket of Ottomans further west, or just serious decreasing it?

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Re: Inaccuracies

Post by Coin » 21:16:59 Saturday, 02 July, 2016

Master of Oblivion wrote:The mongols have made some territorial advances. Russian-Bulgarian forces have advanced along the coast. Since Thrace was heavily protected they just grabbed territory further west.
Grand, thanks for the clarification! Has that Thracian line been breached though, as implied in the turn?

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Re: Inaccuracies

Post by Huojin » 00:49:11 Monday, 11 July, 2016

Just realised, France doesn't have their 3 units in Greece in the stats. They should have 3 fewer credits this turn. I'm editing my updated stats accordingly so you can still copy&paste them.

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Re: Inaccuracies

Post by Huojin » 16:54:57 Sunday, 17 July, 2016

News should be titled Early 1900, not Late 1899.

You cut the country name off from "United States of America" when you copied it over.

Garret Augustus Hobart is dead, so unable to be President of the United States. Under the Presidential Succession Act 1886, the office falls to the Secretary of State since the Vice Presidency is vacant. Presently the Secretary of State (and new President) is John Hay.

Britain's military stats look wrong. They recruited 5 units and lost 5 units, but you're only showing the 5 lost units in the stats. They should have the 5 units they recruited shown as 5 uncalled reserves.

Also Britain's income should be +92. France's income should be +116. Austria's income should be +83. Ottoman income should be +65. I've also made some slight maths errors in my "fixed" stats that are entirely my fault, but limited in scope. When you're on IRC next, we can discuss them and I'll explain my solution. Or I can just PM you.

Can we get some of these "religious groups" that are arming themselves in the Ottoman stats?

"Mexico, Central America, Costa Rica, and Guatamal sign the treaty of Monterrey. ... This treaty provides a trade boost." - Any chance I could see some of that? :3

Mexico should have 1 ground and 1 naval unit in Panama, along with some units from Centroamerica.

There shouldn't be calls for Venezuela to be removed from the Treaty of Monterrey, they're not signatories to it.

I know you've got your strategy for military match-ups somewhere Chairman MoO, but it seems to be producing mismatched results versus rebel groups. The same thing I said about Russia vs Manchurian bandits last turn (6 units destroyed with no losses) is kinda the same thing happening in the Philippines now (3 units destroyed with no losses). The Philippine-American War featured a lot of guerrilla fighting. Some quotes:
SpoilerShow
'The Filipino operational center of gravity was the ability to sustain its force of 100,000 irregulars in the field. The Filipino general Francisco Macabulos described the Filipinos' war aim as, "not to vanquish the U.S. Army but to inflict on them constant losses." '

'This made American occupation of the Philippine archipelago all the more difficult over the next few years. In fact, during just the first four months of the guerrilla war, the Americans had nearly 500 casualties.'

'The Philippine Army began staging bloody ambushes and raids ...'

'At first, it even seemed as if the Filipinos would fight the Americans to a stalemate and force them to withdraw.'
The US used brutal tactics to end the Philippine insurgency. If they're doing the same things now, then it'd be encouraging to have a little more elaboration on it since it's notable globally.

I also generally disagree about your take on China. I know Gesar has dropped now, but things are going from bad to worse there. We started from a point of Aegis just screwing the pooch intensely and things getting really out of hand, but Gesar-or-no, Sun Yat-sen and the Republic were probably both the best in-game and OOC way of restoring some semblance of normality to China so we could stop reading about how insane everything is over there.

And I was under the impression that the famines and disease spreading and such in China was confined to areas of foreign occupation and immediately nearby, which aren't actually that huge. Quite why it's killing Sun's popularity is a mystery.

Also Puyi can't be Emperor, he hasn't been born yet.

Also Xinjiang probably couldn't care less about what's happening in the rest of China as long as they retain their autonomy. They're too far away and too insignificant in the grand scheme of things to bother with the Qing vs Republic clash at such a late stage. Similar to Yunnan, in both places there should probably be some vague idea of adherence and loyalty to "China" without expressly committing to any party's interpretation or owing anyone allegiance. This is a trend you see in China all the way from the Three Kingdoms all the way to the present day with the various "consensuses" between the PRC and ROC. Separatism as in Yunnan is pretty rare - it happened in the 1850s, but only because Hui Muslims tried to establish a separate state. It's unclear how or why Yunnan is a republic at all, rather than just a de facto independent warlord state.

The Republic of China's unit count hasn't increased, even though Boxers have been folded into their army.

You'll have to clarify for me what "Xian territory" is, since it's not a thing, and without knowing what you mean I can't draw it on the map.


As for the map generally, it's mostly complete except for bits where further explanation would be beneficial.

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Re: Inaccuracies

Post by Tellos » 17:21:22 Sunday, 17 July, 2016

I am growing annoyed with this Irish thing the Irish were not powerful in the US in this era. They also were not very anti british in this era and also anti anglo attitudes were mostly relegated to more German minorities. Also since it seems anything I do is deemed hated it's feeling like I am being railroaded to fail.

Also the holy hell how mobilized am I? beyond new territories and the scant few in china I havint mobilized much. So if I mobilize I fail if I don't I fail again feels like your just making sure i fail.also how do these guys not know who is funding their attacks? This isn't the age of wiring money you have to hand it in person or use enough go betweens I'd have followed it back. And how am I isolated? i have deals with many countries and am not a hermit kingdom.
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Re: Inaccuracies

Post by Huojin » 20:39:06 Sunday, 17 July, 2016

New map, Chairman MoO-approved: http://i.imgur.com/APBMPeg.png

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Re: Inaccuracies

Post by scorpion » 22:20:02 Sunday, 17 July, 2016

I'm more than a little confused by the events in Shangdong Peninsula. Currently I do not understand why the entire Peninsula is red. The Entire peninsula is meant to be under the Sino-German trade zone. As it has been my aim over the past few turns to establish the zone over the ENTIRE Shangdong peninsula, not just Qingdao.
The 10 Units already in the Bay Area, and 5 added reinforcing units, plus the 2 recalled from Tianjin will surrond the city, as well as keep an eye on the defensive line to the west(at the shangdong peninsulas neck).
I've had a presence throughout the peninsula, and at its neck for many turns now. There are events happening there that do not make geographic sense as of this turn.


It should not be the same color as the RoC, and given the tensions between Japan and Germany(not at all yet addressed by either side diplomatically, even with a new player as japan) why on earth would the German military, let Japanese troops land onto a Peninsula the German army has been occupying/patrolling for many turns now, only to let them surround their main city in the area? If at the very least, the Japanese should have been turned away, if not, fired on for landing their Unannounced whatsoever with what could only be assumed as an invading force! For many turns I have instructed my units to be on high alert around the Japanese because their past actions. None of what happened regarding the Japanese, or on the map makes any sense.
the German defense in Shangdong and set up “Peace Forts”
This is complete BS Chairman MoO and the situation needs to be addressed, and fixed in the news and on the map. You've been using the Shangdong Peninsula and Qingdao city interchangeably as if they are the same thing when they are not. And now we have this huge debacle in the area.

I don't mean disrespect by any of this, but I am indeed agitated regarding the matters stated.
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Re: Inaccuracies

Post by Serenissima » 23:03:39 Sunday, 17 July, 2016

Post forthcoming when I get home on Tuesday. Fair few things to raise.
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Re: Inaccuracies

Post by Flamelord » 23:46:07 Sunday, 17 July, 2016

Rogue spoiler tag at the bottom of the turn post.

Turn news says that Rabih az-Zubayr was captured by my guys, but the stats still have him/his rebel group in the stats. Just wondering what's going on there.

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Re: Inaccuracies

Post by Master of Oblivion » 02:42:33 Monday, 18 July, 2016

Huojin wrote:News should be titled Early 1900, not Late 1899.

You cut the country name off from "United States of America" when you copied it over.

Garret Augustus Hobart is dead, so unable to be President of the United States. Under the Presidential Succession Act 1886, the office falls to the Secretary of State since the Vice Presidency is vacant. Presently the Secretary of State (and new President) is John Hay.

Britain's military stats look wrong. They recruited 5 units and lost 5 units, but you're only showing the 5 lost units in the stats. They should have the 5 units they recruited shown as 5 uncalled reserves.

Also Britain's income should be +92. France's income should be +116. Austria's income should be +83. Ottoman income should be +65. I've also made some slight maths errors in my "fixed" stats that are entirely my fault, but limited in scope. When you're on IRC next, we can discuss them and I'll explain my solution. Or I can just PM you.

Can we get some of these "religious groups" that are arming themselves in the Ottoman stats?

"Mexico, Central America, Costa Rica, and Guatamal sign the treaty of Monterrey. ... This treaty provides a trade boost." - Any chance I could see some of that? :3

Mexico should have 1 ground and 1 naval unit in Panama, along with some units from Centroamerica.

There shouldn't be calls for Venezuela to be removed from the Treaty of Monterrey, they're not signatories to it.

I know you've got your strategy for military match-ups somewhere Chairman MoO, but it seems to be producing mismatched results versus rebel groups. The same thing I said about Russia vs Manchurian bandits last turn (6 units destroyed with no losses) is kinda the same thing happening in the Philippines now (3 units destroyed with no losses). The Philippine-American War featured a lot of guerrilla fighting. Some quotes:
SpoilerShow
'The Filipino operational center of gravity was the ability to sustain its force of 100,000 irregulars in the field. The Filipino general Francisco Macabulos described the Filipinos' war aim as, "not to vanquish the U.S. Army but to inflict on them constant losses." '

'This made American occupation of the Philippine archipelago all the more difficult over the next few years. In fact, during just the first four months of the guerrilla war, the Americans had nearly 500 casualties.'

'The Philippine Army began staging bloody ambushes and raids ...'

'At first, it even seemed as if the Filipinos would fight the Americans to a stalemate and force them to withdraw.'
The US used brutal tactics to end the Philippine insurgency. If they're doing the same things now, then it'd be encouraging to have a little more elaboration on it since it's notable globally.

I also generally disagree about your take on China. I know Gesar has dropped now, but things are going from bad to worse there. We started from a point of Aegis just screwing the pooch intensely and things getting really out of hand, but Gesar-or-no, Sun Yat-sen and the Republic were probably both the best in-game and OOC way of restoring some semblance of normality to China so we could stop reading about how insane everything is over there.

And I was under the impression that the famines and disease spreading and such in China was confined to areas of foreign occupation and immediately nearby, which aren't actually that huge. Quite why it's killing Sun's popularity is a mystery.

Also Puyi can't be Emperor, he hasn't been born yet.

Also Xinjiang probably couldn't care less about what's happening in the rest of China as long as they retain their autonomy. They're too far away and too insignificant in the grand scheme of things to bother with the Qing vs Republic clash at such a late stage. Similar to Yunnan, in both places there should probably be some vague idea of adherence and loyalty to "China" without expressly committing to any party's interpretation or owing anyone allegiance. This is a trend you see in China all the way from the Three Kingdoms all the way to the present day with the various "consensuses" between the PRC and ROC. Separatism as in Yunnan is pretty rare - it happened in the 1850s, but only because Hui Muslims tried to establish a separate state. It's unclear how or why Yunnan is a republic at all, rather than just a de facto independent warlord state.

The Republic of China's unit count hasn't increased, even though Boxers have been folded into their army.

You'll have to clarify for me what "Xian territory" is, since it's not a thing, and without knowing what you mean I can't draw it on the map.


As for the map generally, it's mostly complete except for bits where further explanation would be beneficial.
If only people were as active in this topic as they were in the international diplomacy one.

1. Fixed the president of the USA
2. I am not sure I follow about the UK's troops. They lost five units, and then also have 5 they have yet to deploy. I am unsure what the issue is.
3. Fixed income
4. Leaving this intentionally vague for now. Just sunni groups that are begining to take up arms
5. 400 Casualties isn't exactly a lot.
6. I disagree with your opinion on China for a couple reasons. First disease is hard to contain in one area. Second, China has had multiple civil wars, warlords, bandits, ect. Now that one side is causing famines I would imagine that spreading to even more areas as peasants flee, steal food ect. Things are bad there. The fact that Sun yat Sen is no actively trying to rebuild China but is instead just causing even more chaos in European held areas is causing many starving peasants to hate him.
7. In this timeline the emperor of china had a lot more sex and Puyi was born early. This was intentional.
8. Xinjiand denouncing the Republic was just a rejection of efforts to flip them to pro-Republic.
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Re: Inaccuracies

Post by Master of Oblivion » 02:44:12 Monday, 18 July, 2016

scorpion wrote:I'm more than a little confused by the events in Shangdong Peninsula. Currently I do not understand why the entire Peninsula is red. The Entire peninsula is meant to be under the Sino-German trade zone. As it has been my aim over the past few turns to establish the zone over the ENTIRE Shangdong peninsula, not just Qingdao.
The 10 Units already in the Bay Area, and 5 added reinforcing units, plus the 2 recalled from Tianjin will surrond the city, as well as keep an eye on the defensive line to the west(at the shangdong peninsulas neck).
I've had a presence throughout the peninsula, and at its neck for many turns now. There are events happening there that do not make geographic sense as of this turn.


It should not be the same color as the RoC, and given the tensions between Japan and Germany(not at all yet addressed by either side diplomatically, even with a new player as japan) why on earth would the German military, let Japanese troops land onto a Peninsula the German army has been occupying/patrolling for many turns now, only to let them surround their main city in the area? If at the very least, the Japanese should have been turned away, if not, fired on for landing their Unannounced whatsoever with what could only be assumed as an invading force! For many turns I have instructed my units to be on high alert around the Japanese because their past actions. None of what happened regarding the Japanese, or on the map makes any sense.
the German defense in Shangdong and set up “Peace Forts”
This is complete BS Chairman MoO and the situation needs to be addressed, and fixed in the news and on the map. You've been using the Shangdong Peninsula and Qingdao city interchangeably as if they are the same thing when they are not. And now we have this huge debacle in the area.

I don't mean disrespect by any of this, but I am indeed agitated regarding the matters stated.
I agree with this post. I didn't look as closely at the Peninsula as I should have when Huojin sent me the map. In my mind Germany is fully in control of the Peninsula.

I also agree with the Japanese issue. I felt a bit uneasy with it when I put it in the turn, but wrongly decided to keep it in. I will work on removing that from the turn.
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