[CHAMBER]Status of armed groups affiliated with Political Parties

The Legislature of the Brazilian Republic
Westar
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Re: [CHAMBER]Status of armed groups affiliated with Political Parties

Post by Westar » 23:07:03 Saturday, 04 November, 2017

We would request that more time be given to debating this in the chamber as we believe no significant progress has been made in addressing armed partisan groups in Brazil.

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Re: [CHAMBER]Status of armed groups affiliated with Political Parties

Post by Westar » 00:58:20 Sunday, 05 November, 2017

Red John wrote:
21:11:55 Monday, 30 October, 2017
We'd like to open a discussion on the matter of the armed wings of certain political parties, and would specifically invite comments from the ANL, the Communist Party of Brazil, and the AIB, all of which posses armed wings. The CPB and AIB in particular have utilized these groups to commit what can only be considered unlawful acts.

So, we would like this body to officially either enshrine the legitimacy of these groups within law, so that my fair party may also establish such a wing, to better match up against parties which could utilize force, or to officially enshrine the illegitimacy of these groups within law, so that the sanctity of our fragile democracy may yet be preserved and we avoid slipping into anarchy.
We find the concerns of our esteemed colleague to be reasonable. We would firstly like to make it known that the events of 10th of September contributed to a tragic night, although thankfully no one died in such a brutal attack. We would like the chamber to know that the Governor of Rio Grande do Sul is doing everything within his power, as well as mobilising the judicial forces, to see the truth and justice prevail.

To address the concerns, we would like to point out that this discussion isn't as simple as some have assumed it to be so far. The 'armed wings of certain political parties' are groups of like-minded individuals who are expressing their legal right to possess weaponry, there is very little illegal about this although it can be worrying to us all. We would however like to shift the debate to the legality of certain groups, some aforementioned and others non-political. We would like to call out the Palmarista Red Guard, Lavras Diamantinas Patriotic Battalion and Farquhar Unlimited.

These 2 groups, and the latter company, are in possession of military grade equipment which is entirely illegal outside of the hands of the legal bodies of the Brazilian nation. We can only react to the conduct of any groups who abuse their lawfully given rights but we must be firm in enforcing the law and this would require the immediate surrender of all military grade weaponry and supplies that the 3 groups are in possession of. There is a clear distinction between civilian use and military use, and it has to be enforced if we are to be respected by the very citizens we claim to represent.

Owing to this, I would like to request that we launch a campaign to disarm all military issue weapons that are not legally owned. We will allow for further debate in order to flesh out the details of this proposal and we urge this chamber to respect the very laws we write in authorising the campaign.

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Re: [CHAMBER]Status of armed groups affiliated with Political Parties

Post by Smyg » 01:06:06 Sunday, 05 November, 2017

Ignoring all our other concerns for the moment - we would like to establish a definition of military-grade weaponry.

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Re: [CHAMBER]Status of armed groups affiliated with Political Parties

Post by Westar » 18:00:30 Sunday, 05 November, 2017

Smyg wrote:
01:06:06 Sunday, 05 November, 2017
Ignoring all our other concerns for the moment - we would like to establish a definition of military-grade weaponry.
Military-grade weaponry is weapons, or equipment, issued by or in use of military forces in Brazil, and out of Brazil if foreign supplies exist. Of course, many of us are fully aware of what these 'military-grade weaponry' include as the Civil War is fresh in our minds, we wouldn't be surprised to find out if Astrojildo Pereira, or any Communist Deputies belonging to this Chamber, were even present in Brazil during our own conflict, many of which I assume were living luxurious lives in Lubyanka.

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Re: [CHAMBER]Status of armed groups affiliated with Political Parties

Post by Smyg » 18:15:36 Sunday, 05 November, 2017

Westar wrote:
18:00:30 Sunday, 05 November, 2017
Smyg wrote:
01:06:06 Sunday, 05 November, 2017
Ignoring all our other concerns for the moment - we would like to establish a definition of military-grade weaponry.
Military-grade weaponry is weapons, or equipment, issued by or in use of military forces in Brazil, and out of Brazil if foreign supplies exist. Of course, many of us are fully aware of what these 'military-grade weaponry' include as the Civil War is fresh in our minds, we wouldn't be surprised to find out if Astrojildo Pereira, or any Communist Deputies belonging to this Chamber, were even present in Brazil during our own conflict, many of which I assume were living luxurious lives in Lubyanka.
Ignoring the personal insult, and the fact that we both know that is not true, that's still not enough of a definition. The vast majority of the standard-issue rifles, service pistols, and other such weaponry employed by the Brazilian Armed Forces are also widespread, both in Brazil and across the world, as entirely legal civilian armaments for self-defence, hunting, and sport. This applies especially to Brazil, in fact, where significant amounts of dangerous wildlife, and high crime rates, exist. Keep also in mind that most military weaponry in Brazil is severely outdated, being pre-Great War and in many cases late 19th century, and have long since entered civilian circulation.

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Luc wrote:Astrojildo Pereira, leading the Communist Party, took active part in the battles and coordinated the establishment of several communes across the country, leading the communist forces in the war. [...] Getúlio Vargas, the famous politician from the South, would form his own militia of soldiers, the so called ‘Public Force’, that would march north from the state of Rio Grande do Sul to fight the lieutenants and the left wing groups with extreme violence and efficiency.

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Re: [CHAMBER]Status of armed groups affiliated with Political Parties

Post by Red John » 16:00:00 Monday, 06 November, 2017

We believe the issue of semantics can be ignored for the time being - this discussion, first and foremost, was intended to discuss the idea offully disarming all armed wings of political parties. If the condition for the support of Mr Vargas's party, for supporting a bill, is that it is not a complete disarming but instead a disarming merely of "military grade weaponry" then we believe we can move forward with the understanding that this will not be a full disarming, but merely a regulatory act - and we can draft a bill.

Then, we can argue what constitutes "military grade weaponry" and move forward. If Mr Vargas is happy to support a bill intended to fully disarm all relevant groups, however, then an argument about what constitutes what kind of weaponry is irrelevant.

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Re: [CHAMBER]Status of armed groups affiliated with Political Parties

Post by Red John » 23:01:04 Saturday, 30 December, 2017

If no party desires to support this bill, then we are content to have it tabled. My state of São Paulo is thankfully being protected by a strong, dedicated militia. With the lack of further input from our esteemed colleagues, we can only conclude that no other party truly values our democracy.

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Re: [CHAMBER]Status of armed groups affiliated with Political Parties

Post by Westar » 23:23:50 Saturday, 30 December, 2017

We will sponsor this bill if the PLD withdraws from its backing. It is important that we maintain our constitutional rights whilst protecting our basic human right to life. We call for the President to issue an order to enforce the law as it currently stands.

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Re: [CHAMBER]Status of armed groups affiliated with Political Parties

Post by Luc » 21:42:01 Sunday, 31 December, 2017

Sebastião do Rego Barros, President of the Chamber of Deputies

We shall give the members of this house two more days to debate the bill and reach a conclusion. If no conclusion is reached, the bill shall be tabled.
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Re: [CHAMBER]Status of armed groups affiliated with Political Parties

Post by Flamelord » 01:11:26 Thursday, 04 January, 2018

We would like to point out to the Honored president that there is no bill that has actually been presented, and the intent was merely to debate upon the possible proposal of a bill that would be met with satisfaction by all parties. At the moment though it seems it would be too divisive, so perhaps the topic should be tabled until a later date when parties may be more amicable to cooperation on this subject

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Re: [CHAMBER]Status of armed groups affiliated with Political Parties

Post by Westar » 01:12:54 Thursday, 04 January, 2018

The ANL firmly believes that legal gun ownership is upheld by the constitution of Brazil, and that any attempt to revoke such rights would be anti-Brazilian to the very core. The issue at hand however is both, the illegal usage of military grade weaponry, and also the use of legal weaponry for malicious and politically driven criminal acts. We maintain that the ban on military grade weaponry should be upheld and individuals or groups to be found illegally holding weaponry of such calibre to be detained and their stock be ceased by the legal forces of that state. However, we also believe that where it is the right for Brazilian citizens to own "civilian weapons", it is illegal for private militias to be formed, especially those tied to political parties such as, but definitely not limited to, the Popular Defence Black Guards, Integralist Force of Brazil and Palmarista Red Guard.

We urge the President to use his authority and cooperate with state executives to carry out the law and to act against this, before we see violence, political or otherwise, dominate our streets once more.

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Re: [CHAMBER]Status of armed groups affiliated with Political Parties

Post by Zar » 02:15:42 Thursday, 04 January, 2018

Since it is constitutionally bound to defend the internal stability of the republic, a comment is necessary from the army.

First, unless I am mistaken, there is nowhere in the Brazilian constitution that guarantees the right of citizens to own firearms. We ask that those who believe otherwise to point out the article where this supposed right comes from.

Secondly, we would like to expound on the notion of "military grade" and "civilian grade" weaponry. Often, it just means firearms that have widespread usage in the military. Does this mean that weapons that are not used by the military pose no threat to civil society? Hardly. Henry repeating rifles are used to harass my troops. Pocket pistols used by extremists for street fighting and assassinations. Also consider the fact that "ordinary" civilian weaponry can, when used en masse and with sufficiently large stockpiles, can easily be used for evil. The rapist bandits currently plaguing Sertao have used fairly low grade firearms to seize more substantial weapons.

Of course, firearms have their place in Brazilian society. Farmers must defend their properties, hunters need to kill game, etc. However, if these cases are the exception and not the rule, then I see no issue with requiring a permit for reasonable firearms such as single shot shotguns or varmint rifles.

I am also happy to answer any more questions if needed.
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Re: [CHAMBER]Status of armed groups affiliated with Political Parties

Post by Luc » 14:02:56 Saturday, 13 January, 2018

Sebastião do Rego Barros, President of the Chamber of Deputies

Given the input of the armed forces personnel, the time of debate given to this topic and its general importance, I will urge this house to formally draft a bill on this matter.
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