Bringing in new members

More or less what it says on the tin.
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scorpion
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Re: Bringing in new members

Postby scorpion » 21:51:17 Wednesday, 05 December, 2012

Orago wrote:I don't care about how good they are at games, forgive me if that is what you thought I meant. I'm terrible at games.

I mean, the people we bring in shouldn't be trolls. I am for bringing new people in, but all I'm saying is we shouldn't invite just anyone, or else the community will go downhill like Patton.


So say if we have the scenario of which a new person decides to search something WW2 related(ww2 bop brings molotov to the top result) on google, stumbles on Molotov by mistake and genuinely wants to check it out and see what it's all about.

Are we to not give what might be a "quality" player a chance based on the POSSIBILITY he might be an asshat? You cannot judge ANYONE accurately until you get to know them and gain experience from being around them.
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Re: Bringing in new members

Postby OYID » 22:58:33 Wednesday, 05 December, 2012

scorpion wrote:
Orago wrote:I don't care about how good they are at games, forgive me if that is what you thought I meant. I'm terrible at games.

I mean, the people we bring in shouldn't be trolls. I am for bringing new people in, but all I'm saying is we shouldn't invite just anyone, or else the community will go downhill like Patton.


So say if we have the scenario of which a new person decides to search something WW2 related(ww2 bop brings molotov to the top result) on google, stumbles on Molotov by mistake and genuinely wants to check it out and see what it's all about.

Are we to not give what might be a "quality" player a chance based on the POSSIBILITY he might be an asshat? You cannot judge ANYONE accurately until you get to know them and gain experience from being around them.


I'm glad Orago starts to see my point :D

Wait, so we're going to give anyone a chance now? I thought we were going with a recommendation system, and the issue was how to handle it.
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Re: Bringing in new members

Postby Aegis » 23:22:00 Wednesday, 05 December, 2012

OYID you are acting as though once we allow anyone to join they some how have control over the forum and can't be made to leave.

We can just ban asshats you know, we do have that power. Also I doubt we will ever vote many people other than the original molotov guys to adminship.
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Re: Bringing in new members

Postby Tsaeb XIII » 23:36:50 Wednesday, 05 December, 2012

So, I've been wondering what to add to this conversation that hasn't already been said as well by Labine as I ever could, but I feel that it's worth quoting this:
Molotov Rules
    1. Members should post in a way that is respectful of other users. Racism, bigotry and other abuse will not be tolerated.
    2. This board is aimed at a general audience. Posting pornographic or generally offensive text, images, links, etc. will not be tolerated.
    3. Do not share other users' personal information or contact details without their permission.
    4. Do not use other users' personal information or contact details to harass them outside of the forums, as this will be punished on Molotov.
    5. Refrain from posting meaningless threads, one word or very short posts, or non-sense posts.
    6. Multiple or repeated posting in order to increase your post count is not allowed.
    7. If you are going to post non-English on these forums, please also post an English translation of your post, as English is a lingua franca most people understand. There are exceptions, such as short phrases or well-known phrases, but totally non-English posts are discouraged.
    8. Signatures are to be kept to reasonable length and level of content.
    9. Keep topics/posts to the relevant forums/threads (Diplomatic correspondence in Diplomacy forums, talking about movies in Off-Topic forums).
    10. Don't spoil TV series, books, movies or video games for others unless previously well clarified. We have spoiler tags. Use them and make fair warning before the tags that the contents are spoilers.

IRC Rules
    1. Don't link or otherwise register IRC nicks that aren't yours. Impersonation with malicious intent will not be tolerated.
    2. Attempts to circumvent IRC bans will be dealt with appropriately, likely in server bans.
    3. #molotov is a SFW channel. Do not post inappropriate things. Gore, pornography, etc., are not allowed. If you want to show someone something, send them a personal message and tag it appropriately as NSFW.

How are trolls going to run rampant through Molly if the admin team enforces the above? The assumption that Molly will end up like Patton if we allow members who want to troll in is basically saying that at no point will our admin team actually do the jobs they're voted in to do and enforce the forum rules, banning problematic new (or old, for that matter) members if required. We need new members, but there is no guarantee that every single new person on the forum will be a "quality member". However, that doesn't mean we shouldn't let anyone in, it means we just need to apply reasonable scrutiny once they're in and act accordingly if they create drama with their presence.
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Re: Bringing in new members

Postby Langben » 06:26:22 Thursday, 06 December, 2012

OYID wrote:I'm glad Orago starts to see my point :D


I'm going to try to narrow this down to my real problem with your point:

You're suggesting not only that any new users could and likely would disrupt the forum somehow, but also implying that you don't trust anybody here to make intelligent decisions when bringing in new people, and further that you don't trust the administration to be able to address issues that might arise if there is ever an issue.

We've already gone back and forth over the hypothetical new user, I think that argument has run it's course. I'm concerned more by your complete lack of faith in our community, which has plenty of real experience with the kind of hypothetical scenarios you bring up.
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Re: Bringing in new members

Postby CWestfall » 17:49:42 Thursday, 06 December, 2012

I mean, I think it's a fair enough concern that the community can fail, Goofy. We all have lapses in judgement. Perhaps if somebody invites a total idiot who does manage to cause some damage, that somebody (By community consensus) can't invite new members for some amount of time. Say, a month.

Orago wrote:I don't care about how good they are at games, forgive me if that is what you thought I meant. I'm terrible at games. I mean, the people we bring in shouldn't be trolls. I am for bringing new people in, but all I'm saying is we shouldn't invite just anyone, or else the community will go downhill like Patton.

I think the idea here if that any new members we invite will be known to us personally. If you know them better than we do, it's your discretion.
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Re: Bringing in new members

Postby OYID » 21:05:13 Thursday, 06 December, 2012

Whoa, Goofy, no need to take this personally. I think Labine is on the right track, but rules need to be set down, polls must be held, and language must be added to the rules to make the consequences of inviting people in march the risk the whole community is being exposed to.
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Re: Bringing in new members

Postby Langben » 21:41:58 Thursday, 06 December, 2012

OYID wrote:Whoa, Goofy, no need to take this personally.


Not to worry, I'm just illustrating my point: You and Labine both assume I'm being unreasonable because I've taken a possible scenario to it's furthest extent without consideration for it being probable. It's the same reason I'm having trouble with your position.

It's possible that something shitty could happen, but it's important to keep in view the actual probability of these things happening in such a manner over a given period of time that NOBODY will notice or be able to fix it.
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Re: Bringing in new members

Postby Huojin » 22:09:50 Thursday, 06 December, 2012

The forum requires administrator activation anyway, so if people are joining who've been invited by someone who has had notoriously bad judgement, we can just inquire further or not approve the accounts. Simple.

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Re: Bringing in new members

Postby Woody » 23:12:01 Thursday, 06 December, 2012

At the end of the day this is still the internet and it is still a forum. Why anyone's losing sleep over regulating it, i don't know. We are a gaming community based of fictional and non-fictional plausibility and fact of periods of history. This isn't the CIA database and forum signups don't have to be like training for the special forces. If people act up, you remove them.
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Re: Bringing in new members

Postby Rising Phoenix » 09:01:24 Friday, 07 December, 2012

User 1: Hello people I decided to invite someone, to be honest two people in fact.
Other user: Ok, let us welcome them. *Rejoins community activities*
User 2: Hi people I would like to play games and stuff. :mrgreen:
User 3: H1 GUY5 IMMA NEW AROUND HERE I WANNA PLAY GAMEZ TOO!!1

Community: Blah blih bloh welcome, do not cause trouble, etcetera blah blah...

*...LATER...*

Community: *Is asleep or something*
User 1: *Playing a game, also obviously not trying to backstab User 2 in said game*
User 2: *Is playing a game, trying to avoid being obviously not backstabbed in said game*

*...Meanwhile...*

User 3: *Thinks: Now it is time to have some real fun!* :twisted:
User 3: *Proceeds to post uncool stuff, along with excrucitantly stupid stuff, etc. etc. :twisted:

...

User 1: Okay dude I am going to check the forums, try not to do anything sneaky or I will know about it! *Thinks: Dang it, I was so close to my performing my master movement...*
User 2: No worries pal I got this anyways! *Thinks: Saved by the bell.*

User 1: *Goes through the forum, runs into all the random $#!% the troll posted* WHAT THE FREAKING HECK IS THIS?!?! :shock:
User 2: *Comes* Hey bro, I heard you screaming though I should check it out is everything -- OM7G WT7 IS THIS FSJALXF64A5ST,ZMRYFÑLG%#&/%(GJH1!#% :o
User 3: Haha u hav bin forun pwn n00bz!!111
User 1: GOD DANG IT SOMEONE HELP!!!
User 2: PLEASE SOMEBODY HELP ME THESE POSTS ARE SO BAD MY EYES HURT BY JUST LOOKING AT THEM!!!
User 3: *Awesome smiley*

Global Moderator: *Pops up like an annoying random ad out of nowhere* Hi guys how is everyone doi-- OH WHAT THE HECK.

User 3: Hahaha!!1 Imma the gr34t trollz 3v3r yeee33333a4444aah!!11oneoneone1eleventyone!!1

Global Moderator: Dude. This is so not cool. Stop it.

User 3: NEVAH!1!!!111

Global Moderator: 'kay. *starts doing stuff, but gets interrupted*

Administrator: Hello all, I though this was a good time to--- ... Wut the funk is going on here. Someone tell me. Fast.

User 1 & User 2: OH MAH GOD HELP HELP HELP HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELP!!!11111

User 3: :twisted:

Global Moderator: I told him to stop already.

Administrator: Fine then.

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*Bans the troll so hard it is now in the stratosphere*


User 3: Nuuuuuuuuuuuuu ill hav mah reveng3 n00bzors, ill taik over ur forun!!!11111oneoneonone!!111eleventy!!1 *Keeps flying off into the stratosphere*

User 1 & User 2: :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Global Moderator: Glorystealer, I was gonna do it first.

Administrator: You would have got the kill if you weren't so freaking lazy.

*Both staff members log out, while the two friendly users go back to their game.*

THE END.

Note: In case it was not clear by reading it, this a parody of the fear of some of our users and why it is EXAGGERATED... And that is assuming ONLY TWO PEOPLE OUT OF OUR ENTIRE STAFF DO THEIR FREAKING JOBS. By the way, I know the colours are all wrong and stuff, but meh, I am too lazy to fix it. In this fictional scenario, it is likely that I was chosen as the Global Moderator. That is why the Administrator got the kill first.

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Re: Bringing in new members

Postby RinKou » 09:00:16 Monday, 10 December, 2012

So, I complained about some shit when we first set up this forum. A lot of it was factionalism, and OYID is displaying an alarming amount of it. That's like, straight up nativist shit right there.

This is a collection of words and sometimes images structured around pretending to be Cold War governments, man. Let's not take this so seriously to start with.

Second, all this hard and fast rules shit needs to stop. We're not writing a fucking constitution here. If things happen, then they happen, and we deal with them.

And then I rambled
Let's have an example. Say, you and some buddies of yours hang out on a regular basis. One day, one of your bros wants to invite a friend of his to join. The guy joins and is relatively cool. So that's great. Or maybe you guys run into a dude at the local bowling alley/fishing hole/soda fountain, and he seems cool enough to ask to hang out with you guys more often. On the chance that one of those two guys end up being uncool, you can decide, with that current information, for that current situation, what to do specifically, and only for that situation. You do not come up with long, bureaucratic rules for dealing with anything similar in the future. You do not ask prospective guys who want to hang out to submit a resume. And you do not invest quote-unquote power in any member of this group.

Because you're just a group of dudes who hang out. That's it. Nobody here has any real authority over the other, there is no special class of admins or mods that the team is drawn from. The aforementioned analogy doesn't fit perfectly, sure, but at the most, this is like a club. There needs to be a president and some officers, sure, but only for the absolute bare minimum mechanical workings of the forum. The admin team here cannot decide the club's next activity, or run fundraisers for that activity, or any of that sort of thing.

They're the guy you picked to drive tonight, more than anything else.


So, I know this has been long, but, here's what I was trying to say, and some stuff I didn't even address in that rant:

TL;DR:
1. Factionalism is dangerous. Trying to establish some sort of power where there shouldn't be any is dangerous. Don't do it. We aren't fucking Bolsheviks in here. (Most of us, at least.)
2. People come, and people go. Who gives a shit. If you thought they were cool, stay in touch. If you didn't like them, then good riddance.
3. There is no sort of real risk involved with new members. The worst that can happen is a troll posts NSFW material and you open it in front of your boss/grandma/probation officer. And while that might be an issue, that was an issue with the whole of the internet.
4. While I like community discussion, we should remember to keep things like that. As just discussions. We don't need to vote on every little thing. We don't need to discuss every little thing. If something comes up that needs to be addressed, there's a forum for that. Let's not be the dad who calls Family Meetings to discuss the content of next week's Family Game Night.
5. I like multiples of five. It's such a nice, rounded number.
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Re: Bringing in new members

Postby OYID » 03:32:51 Tuesday, 11 December, 2012

Probably goes without saying, but I disagree with the previous post. For obvious reasons, mostly, though I think special emphasis should be placed in Rinkou's dismissiveness of forum politics: if this is going to be a democracy, then I believe it should be highly participatory. As it is, this discussion is just good fun, but if we ever find ourselves in an actual crisis situation, then endless blabbering about new rules will be a serious problem, and it's probable people with the...let's say, faculty to resolve the issue will be forced to make a decision on their own, only to be later accused of stepping over the forum's collective will. This is why it's important to have guidelines and contingency protocols, as well with people with the executive ...screw it, the word's "authority" to act quickly and on their own when necessary.

Also, why would you show Molotov to your grandma? :P
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Re: Bringing in new members

Postby Langben » 04:22:21 Tuesday, 11 December, 2012

OYID wrote:Also, why would you show Molotov to your grandma? :P


He's trying to describe this "Crisis Scenario" you are insisting upon. People posting shock images is about as bad as it could get, and it's really a trivial thing to delete a post and boot a dickhead. There wouldn't be any emergency, or discussions about "stepping over the forum's collective will" or "contingency protocols". Molotov is for games, not to act out forum politics in a sterile environment. I liked Rin's "designated driver" line, there isn't an executive group controlling things, just a few of the guys willing to make sure the party keeps going smoothly.

OYID, your concerns are becoming much broader than just Bringing in New Members. You're also dismissing more than a few members questioning your reasoning while simultaneously calling for more "participatory democracy". I just want to make sure this is still a discussion/exchange of ideas, and not just a difference of opinion that isn't going anywhere.
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Re: Bringing in new members

Postby OYID » 16:26:34 Tuesday, 11 December, 2012

I'm not being dismissive, but you're right in that this has become unproductive :( Maybe we should call it a thread.
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