The Forum Merger Idea

More or less what it says on the tin.
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BgKnight
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The Forum Merger Idea

Postby BgKnight » 21:35:00 Wednesday, 17 April, 2013

Alright fellas, listen up. Here is the deal, the players of Nation Games in AH have made their own forum, they are searching for a way to expand the community of game players, we have also been searching for a way. I have an idea of merging our forums, it has not been presented to the members of their community yet, cause it is just an idea that was born about 10 minutes ago. What I am proposing, is turning Molly into a major forum for forum games, with different systems (not just BoP). I want opinions on this, so the community can deiced on whether its a good idea or should we abandon it.

Of course, we have no way of knowing whether the NG members will agree or anything else at this level. But I would like for the community to discuss it.

Go!
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Huojin
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Re: The Forum Merger Idea

Postby Huojin » 21:37:30 Wednesday, 17 April, 2013

Straight from IRC:

[22:31] Huojin So BgKnight and I have been talking about this and this is my view: I'm super paranoid that something will go wrong. Which is not to say I'm against the idea of new members. I'm always in favour of new members. But when our voting system can oh-so-easily be turned into a popularity contest, I begin to worry about how a sudden influx of new members from a pre-existing community will integrate, and
[22:31] Huojin how they'll affect voting. All it takes is one person to screw something up in a big way. And frankly, I don't know these people. My initial idea with regard to this was to finally implement our long-considered-but-never-officially-discussed probationary period on admin voting through use of the Newly Registered User group. Assuming we merged any time soon, it's unlikely to be an issue,...
[22:31] Huojin ...since the next elections aren't for a couple of months anyway. But generally speaking I think the probationary period is something we should finally do.


[22:34] Huojin Also, BgKnight had an idea of a "dual-monarchy" system where we divide the forums in two, but that doesn't solve a lot in my mind either, since it unnecessarily divides the forums into two, limits us to an uneven distribution of admins, since I think at the moment we technically have more members (?), risks forming some sort of bloc/division/us-and-them attitude.


[22:33] CWestfall You know that thing we did where we offended a lot of people coming over from Patton by making wild assumptions about them? I'm worried about doing that here.
[22:35] Huojin And I'm basing my views on them from what I know of them, having read the AH forums, spoken to some people from there, and so on. Like most communities, they have their good and their bad. But given that on the whole I have no idea who any of the people we're proposing merging with are, or how they behave, I reserve the right to assume the worst and be pleasantly surprised. Hopefully.


CWest's comment moved in time to give context to my response.

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Re: The Forum Merger Idea

Postby OYID » 21:52:46 Wednesday, 17 April, 2013

I don't know these people, I don't know their games, I don't know anything about their forum. The popularity contest concern has always been my major objection to letting in new members. If we made the current admins and mods permanent, it could work, but it would have the side effect of destroying our democracy.
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Re: The Forum Merger Idea

Postby Smyg » 21:54:00 Wednesday, 17 April, 2013

I don't like it, and I will not support it. Will try to motivate once I've gotten some sleep.

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Re: The Forum Merger Idea

Postby scorpion » 22:01:50 Wednesday, 17 April, 2013

While I support opening our forum to new members, this situation is tricky. Allowing a bloc of players in whom know each other but have had little or no contact with the bulk of this forum seems like something that could take a turn for the worse.

If there were safeguards in place to protect our democratic voting processes from mob rule than I would maybe consider changing my opinion from a no to a yes.
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Re: The Forum Merger Idea

Postby Huojin » 22:40:09 Wednesday, 17 April, 2013

Just to be clear, my position is not that we shouldn't merge. I think a merger could work. It could be beneficial. But we should do it in the right way.

Previous discussions about bringing in new members have focused on individuals and how we should handle them and so on. The end result was just people vouch for whoever they bring.

Obviously this doesn't apply if we go and nearly double the forum membership overnight, as some people in that thread argued was extremely unlikely to happen. And yet here we are considering proposing this. It also doesn't seem reasonable to hold BgKnight to account for new members actions.

My view is that a combination of 6 month terms plus the probationary period on voting in admin elections (which we really ought to have anyway, even if its a month or less) would be sufficient to ensure a bulk transition transpires smoothly. A couple of months of people getting to know each other, both communities learning from each other and so on, and the chances of blocs or factionalism decrease, in my view. Sure, there's the chance it might be there, but it's a better situation than a straight-up merge.

I'm pretty sure I had more to say, but I started thinking about something else, so never mind.

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Re: The Forum Merger Idea

Postby OYID » 22:46:02 Wednesday, 17 April, 2013

It's ok, Kinky Hotels can be distracting.

Anyway, what do you mean by probation? We elect admins and then confirm them or something? I'm still against the merger.
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Re: The Forum Merger Idea

Postby Huojin » 22:55:22 Wednesday, 17 April, 2013

OYID wrote:It's ok, Kinky Hotels can be distracting.

Anyway, what do you mean by probation? We elect admins and then confirm them or something? I'm still against the merger.

We use the Newly Registered User group again, turning it back on, and change the permissions so that you can do everything a Registered User can do, except vote in polls in a specific forum to be established for admin voting, which can be put at the top of the forums and kept hidden through permissions whenever we're not doing an admin vote.

Then when a vote rolls around, it's revealed and everyone can see it but only Registered Users have permissions set to vote in polls in that forum. I have a feeling you can set Newly Registered User accounts to turn into Registered User accounts after a time has elapsed, but if not:

1. Either have admins change it by hand (tedious, perhaps, but there aren't a huge amount of admin tasks to do beyond deleting spam accounts, fiddling with forums and changing user titles)

Or,

2. Set it to a post-number, which is definitely possible. Whilst less exact than time limits, unless someone manages to spam a shitton of posts and vote in a poll without being caught at it, it could/should be fairly safe.

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Re: The Forum Merger Idea

Postby Rising Phoenix » 18:06:31 Friday, 19 April, 2013

We have not resolved the issue of whatever we allow guests to view the forum and we just want to double our userbase just like that? I agree, it is a very tricky situation. It could work however, if the measures Huojin has proposed are used.

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Re: The Forum Merger Idea

Postby Langben » 04:07:47 Saturday, 20 April, 2013

Rising Phoenix wrote:We have not resolved the issue of whatever we allow guests to view the forum and we just want to double our userbase just like that?


Those two items are unrelated. The guest viewable content discussion is an issue mostly of catering to Gesar/et. al so they're not being harassed, whatever is eventually worked out there simply makes the site more appealing to unregistered viewers. That can stay in limbo indefinitely and not really affect operation of the forum.
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Re: The Forum Merger Idea

Postby Gesar » 05:15:23 Saturday, 20 April, 2013

Have you guys even been paying attention to the shit on AH? Do you guys really want those guys on here? Yeesh.
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Langben
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Re: The Forum Merger Idea

Postby Langben » 07:15:35 Saturday, 20 April, 2013

Gesar wrote:Have you guys even been paying attention to the shit on AH? Do you guys really want those guys on here? Yeesh.


If there was a link, I didn't see it.
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BgKnight
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Re: The Forum Merger Idea

Postby BgKnight » 08:13:48 Saturday, 20 April, 2013

Alright, thank you for the input gents, it has been mostly negative so this will not go through.

I will delete the topic in a day or two.
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Re: The Forum Merger Idea

Postby Langben » 10:08:33 Saturday, 20 April, 2013

BgKnight wrote:Alright, thank you for the input gents, it has been mostly negative so this will not go through.

I will delete the topic in a day or two.


No sense in deleting it, just unpin and lock when it's through. Thoughtful consideration of our rather haphazard democracy and how new users affect it is far from useless.
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Rising Phoenix
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Re: The Forum Merger Idea

Postby Rising Phoenix » 12:22:43 Saturday, 20 April, 2013

Langben wrote:
Rising Phoenix wrote:We have not resolved the issue of whatever we allow guests to view the forum and we just want to double our userbase just like that?


Those two items are unrelated. The guest viewable content discussion is an issue mostly of catering to Gesar/et. al so they're not being harassed, whatever is eventually worked out there simply makes the site more appealing to unregistered viewers. That can stay in limbo indefinitely and not really affect operation of the forum.

I would not say it is unreleated... Not completely, at least: Our forum is a democracy + sudden doubling of new members = new policies could be in effect once new admins take over. What if the new members decide to open up the forum completely?


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